Well it is seen throughout the poem that Stella denying Astrophil actually makes him happy because it proves that he is right for loving her because she possesses "virtue." What I took from this poem is that men and women are not so different today when it comes to possibly embarking on a romantic relationship. It is very common for men to become intoxicated with a women's beauty and lore, and as a result are willing to do anything to possess her. Women, on the other hand, are very aware of how the desires of men usually work, and therefore women very often must deny or turn down men in order to remain "lady-like,"or virtuous. Astrophil may hold virtue and reason to a higher standard in theory, but he acts on his feelings of love.
Stella sort of symbolized virtue to Astrophil, therefore her repeated denial of him as her lover was not internalized as acts of malice or rejection, but rather triumphs of a deeper spiritual love she possessed. This realization for Astrophil can be seen in sonnet #87, "And nothing than the cause more sweet could be,/ I had been vexed, if vexed I had not been." Here you see that her denial of him only made him love her and desire her more. This is also something men ad women deal with today. If a woman denies a man, or plays "hard to get," he wants her that much more. It is not entirely clear if Stella is denying him due to her virtuosity, or perhaps she just doesn't have romantic feelings toward him. However, what is clear then, as it is now, is that there's a certain standard or high ideal that men and women have for women when it comes to romantic love. Astrophil loves her even more because of the virtue she seems to possess by denying him, but does not hold himself to that same standard of willpower.
I believe this poem reveals much more than just a man struggling with his love for a woman. I see it as reflecting a very common occurrence between some men and women then and now, a man willing to sacrifice reason for love, and a woman willing to sacrifice love for reason. It certainly can happen in opposite fashions, however my point is that many men, including Astrophil, love a woman more if she is virtuous, and this virtuosity is achieved by applying reason to love and, in doing so, rejecting or denying love.
I really enjoyed your insight into the relationships between women and men. I agree that some men can become infatuated with women and won't stop until they have them. But I also think that this can go the other way, especially at younger ages. I feel as thought woman tend to want relationship at a younger age then most men. So this pattern may happen more once men are older and more mature and actually ready to settle down.
ReplyDeleteI also thought it was interesting when you wrote, "In sonnet 21 Astrophil shows that although he cannot help but choose love, he holds reason and virtue to a much higher standard." This seemed interesting to me because usually love cannot be held with reason. Usually love is so complex that you can't explain why you feel the way you feel. Reason not usually something that comes hand in hand with love. In fact, if someone becomes so infatuated with love, reason may fly out the door altogether. It is pretty impressive that Astrophil could hold on to reason while so deep in love with someone.
I love how you connected these sonnets to the everyday conflicts that occur between men and women in present time. It's basically the situation of a girl playing hard to get and how it makes a man want her more. It's funny because I don't always agree that this is the case, but when love is strong and true, a person is not going to give up on a woman just because she's trying to play a game.
ReplyDeleteLike Kate (above this comment) said, the fact that Astrophil kept trying to reason with himself was very interesting. However, I felt as though his emotions took over and he was unable to really think clearly. In the sonnet I looked at specifically, sonnet 31, he's delusional! Talking to the moon is NOT normal. I think that he was trying to reason with himself and his emotions but ended up being lovesick and crazy and unable to truly allow reason to overtake his emotional thoughts.
I agree that this poem reveals much more than just a man struggling with his love for a woman. Interestingly enough, I feel like it also somehow succeeds in offering both male/female introspection into their relationship. I also feel like this is somewhat of a gender reversal - while women are often criticized or teased for being over emotional, men are similarly (and oppositely) criticized for being collectively too objective and even "thick-headed." Like you said, this poem portrays a man willing to sacrifice reason for love, and a woman willing to sacrifice love for reason. This is a pretty cool twist on conventional gender roles!
ReplyDeleteI like how you explained the story in what would be a current day context. It really helped me to relate better with the stories. Also, I thought the same thing as Kate Z. Women nowadays tend to be the more likely to become infatuated with a man and go after him. This flip is one thing that shows the changing in times from Sidney's to now.
ReplyDeleteI think the connection you made was a great one! A lot of times reading literature from this time period is difficult and hard for me to relate to, but you really did a great job connecting the relationship between Stella and Astrophil to one that we may see in our society today.We see Stella playing "hard to get", while Astrophil is willing to pretty much anything to have the love of his life feel the same about him. We see this in moves, songs, and every day life, so its good to know that as old as this poem may be we can still relate to it today.
ReplyDeleteI think it is interesting that aspects of dating back then are still in place today. At first pass, the reading is very difficult and doesn't seem as if it could possibly relate to modern culture; however, you managed to relate it effortlessly. Finding love is many times a game. We want what we can't have a lot of times and that is just as true back then as today.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Brenna, in the sense that when one first reads the text, the language and style make it difficult to relate. However, the basic ideas of a relationship are present, and the feelings are universal. I like your analysis of Astrophil's reasoning for loving Stella. We do see his reasoning within the text, but your idea of her virtuosity being her appeal makes sense to me. I also enjoyed Sonnet 87, where we truly saw the love shared between them. He can see her love for him, simply because of how upset she is with losing him.
ReplyDeleteI hate using personal experiences in posts due to bias and possible misinterpretation, but through experience, there is not a definitive trend with women who play 'hard to get' and women who are 'easy'. I once went for a woman who was "hard to get", making myself "easy" to her. and it ended horribly, it took a large chunk of time to finally realize that she wasn't for me.
ReplyDeleteYet in the end, when I was already in another relationship, she confessed her love for me and the roles were reversed.
I was the one who was hard / impossible to get. She was the one who I could have easily taken.
Still don't know what made me say this. Kinda random, but thought it was prevalent regarding the Stella and Astrophil predicament.
I also like the current-day context with which you gave your rumination, it makes it easier to understand and, for some, easier to relate to. Furthermore, carrying on what bwhalen said, it is interesting that some of the aspects of courtship of today are still carrying on from past values. Unfortunately, I also believe that we've lost quite a few of the other values of the past that weren't realy mentioned in your rumination. Quite a few college students nowadays seem to enjoy "hooking up" for one night while as you can see in Astrophil's sonnets he would rather love her for all eternity and likely wants to marry her. The deep contrast of values between the here and now and back in the past shows how much change has happened in the centuries that separate us from Astrophil.
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